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Proposal: Software Development (in Portuguese)

From a branding perspective, wouldn't it be better if this proposal were called "Stack Overflow (in Portuguese)" like most of the proposals mentioned here, instead of having a custom name? Apart from being language-specific, the goal of this site would be very similar to Stack Overflow (maybe a little bit broader in scope, since we won't have the closely related ones like Server Fault in Portuguese too). This name change would not only make the new site more recognizable by existing portuguese-speaking Stack Exchange users, but also bring awareness of the network for newcomers - giving them more resources even if not in their preferred language.

Otherwise, does it really make sense to have a site for Portuguese speakers with the title in English? I saw the spanish version changed the name also (was "Desarrollo de Software en Español"), but I fail to see how this "generic" name is better than one that reinforces the brand.


Do ponto de vista da marca, não seria melhor se essa proposta fosse chamada "Stack Overflow (in Portuguese)" como a maioria das propostas citadas aqui? Exceto por ser específico para um idoma, o objetivo desse site seria bastante similar ao do Stack Overflow (talvez um pouquinho mais abrangente, já que não teríamos os sites relacionados como Server Fault em português também). Essa mudança de nome não só tornaria o novo site mais reconhecível para usuários existentes do Stack Exchange que falam Português, mas também apresentaria o resto da rede para novos usuários - dando a eles mais recursos ainda que não no seu idioma de preferência.

De outro modo, será que faz mesmo sentido ter um site na língua portuguesa com o título em inglês? Reparei que a versão em espanhol mudou o nome também (era "Desarrollo de Software en Español"), mas não vejo como um nome "genérico" seria melhor que um que reforça a marca.

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Addendum:

A more recent update on this issue is available here:

Which one to use: “Stack Overflow” or “Software Development” in the title?


The original post:

This is subject to change, but we were not planning on calling the localized software development sites "Stack Overflow (in Portuguese)". But we'll have a final decision about this soon.

As it stands now, we were planning on keeping the Portuguese site called "Software Development in Portuguese" because is it not a translation of Stack Overflow. It is a completely different site with different users, different credentials, different questions, their own meta, and possibly different community rules, etc, etc.

It might be really confusing to the average user if we all the site "Stack Overflow (in Portuguese)" as if it was just a translation of the original site. Their accounts, badges, reputation, etc will not be on the localized version of Stack Overflow. We are creating a completely separate site and community for each language.

We'll have a final decision on this issue soon.

  • Would you call pt.wikipedia a portuguese translation of en.wikipedia? They may have some contents in common (not all though), but they are also different communities with different rules and behaviors, etc. I believe the reasoning is the same. IMHO the branding benefits of using the same name outweights the risks of confusion, but if you guys at SE think differently, I have no objection of keeping the current name (I mean, except for the title/contents language dissonancy). – mgibsonbr May 21 '12 at 19:01
  • @mgibsonbr No, but "Wikipedia" is analogous to our "stackexchange.com" domain. We're not moving localized sites to another network (they'll still be subdomains of Stack Exchange.com), so the analogy doesn't quite fit. But I'm still trying to work out the naming conventions to see what makes the most sense long term. I updated my answer. – Robert Cartaino May 21 '12 at 19:27
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    @mgibsonbr I see benefits on calling SO (Portuguese) but IMHO Robert is right because we are a totally different community, not just the exact SO site for Portuguese speakers. I'm not talking about translation either. As you stated, Software Development in Portuguese is broader site. Anyway I'm open to any change in title. I prefer "Software Development" instead "Desenvolvimento de programas". Every person that is a software developer understand the term thus the translated term is almost weird as you already stated at another discussion. – Maniero Jun 10 '12 at 23:08
  • @bigown I agree it's very hard to draw a line. If I were to pick a custom name, it'd be "Desenvolvimento de Software" like the spanish proposal once used ("Desarrollo de Software"), not "de Programas", "de Sistemas", etc. IMHO "software" would be best left untranslated, while "development" would not (personally, I call myself "desenvolvedor de software" or "programador de computador"). But that's just my opinion, and I know people who disagree on both directions (some of my professors insisted on translating "site", "link" and even "mouse"!). I'll gladly accept what the community likes most. – mgibsonbr Jul 7 '12 at 4:38
  • (and let me just add: while it's unthinkable for the average Brazilian to call a mouse "rato", the Portuguese do just that... While I don't think programmers should always use English, the opposite seems also too extreme. Like lawyers, who use latin words all the time but still talk in their native languages, I believe some middle ground should exist for us too. But the specifics on how to do that, this is beyond me...) – mgibsonbr Jul 7 '12 at 4:46
  • @mgibsonbr Translate everything makes sense in Portugal anyway. I am waiting for definitive answer by Robert Cartaino to call a poll about the name. Probably it will be a hard job to find out a good name for Brazilians, Portugueses, Angolans, etc. – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 15:11
  • Robert, can you give a final word about this specific proposal? Currently it is a broader proposal than original SO but still very close. It will be called Stack Overflow (in Portuguese)? Or should we looking for a new brand? – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 16:07
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    @bigown I'm pretty sure this will be called "Stack Overflow." It's a big brand with a lot of momentum and we don't want to start splitting up that brand into a series of other closely-related names because of minor variations between the communities and the accepted scope. – Robert Cartaino Jul 23 '12 at 17:46
  • Thanks. Do you have thoughts about the subdomain? sopt.stackexchange.com? – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 17:52
  • @bigown I don't know how the naming is going to work. That is an issue left ultimately up to the developers. One solution might be a multinational approach where everyone goes stackoverflow.com and picks their language when a localized version is available. For example, go to twitter.com and use the language drop-down. The selection becomes sticky. – Robert Cartaino Jul 23 '12 at 18:31
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Software Development in Portuguese

Can't relate to this at all, seems like we're talking about a website that develops software in Portuguese, not about a Q&A site for Portuguese Developers.

Translated: "Desenvolvimento de Software em Português" <- Can you see what I mean?

Placing the suggestion into Google's search:

I don't believe this to be the right name to go with.


Stack Overflow (in Portuguese)

As I've read before, here one might believe this to be a translated version to Portuguese of the stackoverflow.com. It's a no go.

Take this Google Search as an example:

Searching for "PHP ob_flush()", Google will present answers from the existing Stack Overflow and also from the yet to come Stack Overflow (in Portuguese):

Google Search Example

Surely tons of questions already asked in English will end up being asked in Portuguese at the new site. So, when a Google search presents results, will have one link pointing to Stack Overflow, and another pointing to this new site. Looking at both, one easily assumes that one link is the translation of the other.


Software Development

I've become passionate by bigown's mention:

"Software Development" -> "Desenvolvimento de Software"

It works quiet well:

  • it's neutral in conception;
  • can be very well related and recognized by any programmer;
  • Has a large scope regarding contents;
  • Has a clean translation to other languages.
  • The (in Portuguese) part does not seem ambiguous to me. Most of the Stack Exchange's language-specific branches follow this pattern. Having "Stack Overflow" -- the most popular site of the SE -- in the name already promotes "free advertising" to attract other Portuguese-speaking SE members during the Beta. The only problem with "Stack Overflow (in Portuguese)", IMO, is that this name may be a little misleading to first-time visitors, as this proposal has a much larger scope (includes SU and SF). This answer also applies here. – Fabrício Matté Jul 22 '12 at 12:02
  • I also slightly disagree with "one might believe this to be a translated version to Portuguese of the stackoverflow.com" -- I've seen this many times before, but honestly, who in the right mind would assume that people would spend their time translating 4 million questions? They can use Google Translator if they need translations. – Fabrício Matté Jul 22 '12 at 12:05
  • @FabrícioMatté Replying to your comment about (in Portuguese): I am Portuguese and live in Portugal, being my native language Portuguese, believe me, if we're to target Portuguese Programmers, we can't go with a name like that! After translated to Portuguese, is completely misleading. – Zuul Jul 22 '12 at 13:04
  • @FabrícioMatté As to the Stack Overflow (in Portuguese), I've improved my answer with a search simulation. Hopefully it can clarify my point of view on this. – Zuul Jul 22 '12 at 13:48
  • @Fabrício Matté: SO pt has larger scope but not so large that includes SU and SF. About the name: it's just complicated. None are strictly appropriate. The name is an issue but for now I am focusing on reach beta phase. Hopefully I would have sparing time to discuss this later. – Maniero Jul 22 '12 at 20:32
  • I'm not fluent in Portugal's Portuguese so I'll give you credit in the ambiguous naming area. @bigown Yes, I guess I've read somewhere about a suggestion to include SU/SF in the scope as there would hardly ever be a Q&A solely for SU or SF in Portuguese, sorry for the confusion. BTW, the current scope includes at least SO and Programmers' scopes right? Also, even though I'm all for a more specific scope proposal, I know that most SE sites are usually launched with a larger scope than the initially intended and the rules about what exactly will be welcome here will gain definition with time. – Fabrício Matté Jul 23 '12 at 1:10
  • @Fabrício Matté Exactly. In future community can point what is off topic and a new site could be created to "dump" off topic questions. I tried to create SU and SF pt but these proposals didn't get traction. Probably it can be tried again when SOpt get success. Personally I think programmers a mistake. I was moderator there and seeing questions on SO you get at least ten times more open questions "not programming related" (programmers original name), a lot with massive popularity, in SO than you get in programmers. Programmers was created to comply with wrong community demands ... – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 13:56
  • In fact Programmers was created to accommodate subjective questions that disturb (correcty IMHO) SO users. But subjective questions was banned from programmers too. Subjective questions are not constructive in any SX site now. Neither SO and Programmers community understood the scope of both sites. SO is very schizophrenic, you could get a question barely programming related closed or not for lucky. I previous discuss this but I give up, neither community or SX staff "see" this, community got peaceful after Programmers was created and no one care anymore if questions Not Program Rel are in SO – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 14:07
  • Actually some questions are subjective matter of be Not programming Related or not. It's more important for audience (which is or should be the king at SX) get more segmented sites for specific technologies than not programming related, but SX staff don't want to break the huge success site for SEO purposes if community don't fight against very hard. Note that I'm not saying the SO should be break more, just that it should be break by technologies when NPR was broke. Or better yet, it shouldn't be break, as I personally see. – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 14:15
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    About the name. I doubt that we can find a name better than SO (in portuguese) but we can try. I was think about "Deu Pau" some time ago but probably it's not a good for non Brazilians. @Zuul can say something about. – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 14:23
  • See comments from Robert Cartaino in his anwser above. – Maniero Jul 23 '12 at 17:50
  • Thanks for your comments @bigown, they're very clarifying. I fully agree on SO's skeptic judgment about off-topic questions. +1 for the "Deu Pau", what a perfect and professional name! :) – Fabrício Matté Jul 23 '12 at 23:03
  • @bigown May be soft there, but to "hard" here. In Portugal we would translate that to "Deu Me..." or worst :) – Zuul Jul 23 '12 at 23:08
  • @bigown Nonetheless, one must use a name that's common to all Portuguese speakers, on every country. Also a subject related name is the way to go :) I still prefer you're first option! – Zuul Jul 23 '12 at 23:09
  • Yes @Zuul, that's exactly how it's interpreted here as well -- even though it's a relatively common wording for when your code doesn't run as expected. I think Bigown wasn't being 100% serious about the name. Back on topic, Robert's comments in the other answer seems to sum up the reasons for branding it as SO very well. – Fabrício Matté Jul 23 '12 at 23:16

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